So Enchanted: Pony Hunter Extraordinaire

So Enchanted, known as Lex around the barn, has too many tricolors to list! In addition to a clean sweep at Pony Finals in 2016, Lex was 2022 USEF/Smartpak Grand Champion Pony Hunter of the Year. When you think of such a successful pony hunter - especially a small such as Lex - you likely think that the pony will just pack around anybody, but you'd be wrong in this case! While she won't do anything bad, Lex needs the right team of trainer, rider and groom to truly bring out her best. Listen to this episode where I meet with Patricia Griffith and Caroline Passarelli to learn how the team behind her makes sure she is happy and ready to strut her stuff in the show ring.

Transcript

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[Music] Welcome to Inside Equine Minds, a podcast where I, Kaitlin Hendry, meet with trainers,  riders and grooms to dive deep inside the minds of the most successful horses in various disciplines.  We'll take you behind the scenes from the horses perspective to learn about how these horses are  trained and managed in a way that strengthens their mental game and fuels their success. This  podcast is brought to you by EqPI, or Equine Performance Identities, which is a personality  profiling tool to help you understand your horse at an individual level. An EqPI profile provides  information about your horses individual needs and motivations so you can manage and work with  them in a way that brings out their best. An EqPI profile can also inform breeding and sales  by providing information about temperament to ensure the best match possible between either  horse and rider, or stallion and mare. In today's episode, we'll be learning all about a pony hunter  extraordinaire. She is a 2009 Welsh pony cross known as Lex around the barn, but if you have  seen her in the show ring, you know her as So Enchanted. She is owned by the Zandri family of  Sprucedale Inc. She has so many tricolors, there's no way I'm going to be able to mention them,  but if you want even a glimpse of how amazing this pony is, she has earned tricolors at venues such  as Upperville, Washington International, Devon, WEF, Penn National and Pony Finals. In fact,  one of her first big championships was the 2016 Pony Finals. She went as a green pony.  She had only shown a few times before, and she ended up sweeping the small green pony division  with Caroline Passarelli, who is one of my guests today. In addition to winning Pony Finals in 2016,  she was also 2022 USEF/Smartpak grand champion pony hunter of the year with Ella Tarumianz.  As I mentioned before, I'm really excited to have Caroline Passarelli as one of my guests since she  was one of Lex's first riders and rode her when she was a green pony. And in addition to Caroline,  we have Patricia Griffith joining us who is Lex's trainer out of Heritage Farm. But before we speak  with Caroline and Patricia, let's do a quick overview of Lex's EqPI personality profile. In  order to develop this profile for Lex,, Patricia went online and took the EqPI personality  assessment which is available on the EqPI website www.equineperformanceidentities.com. Using  Patricia's inputs, I evaluated Lex's personality across four behavioral spectrums of behavior which  are also called traits. These four spectrums are Independence, which is the horse's preference to  control or comply, extraversion which is the horse's preference to interact or isolate,  stability which is the horse's preference for predictability or variety, and lastly,  the structure spectrum, which is the horse's preference for clarity or flexibility. For the  independence spectrum, Lex is on the high side, meaning that she will likely prefer to have more  autonomy and control in what she does day-to-day, and in order to get her to be motivated,  you have to really think about what's in it for Lex? Because if there's not something in  it for her or she's not enjoying the job, you'll likely encounter more resistance  and challenging behavior, because she doesn't want to perform. For the extraversion spectrum,  she is considered situational so she doesn't have a strong preference one way or  another. For situational spectrums, in order to figure out how they actually show up, we  have to look at how the spectrum relates to other spectrums in the horse's profile. So for example,  Lex's extraversion spectrum is lower than her independence spectrum which means that she is  going to be more task-oriented. She's not going to be super motivated by pleasing you or by getting  attention. She's going to be more focused on just getting the job done. Her extraversion  is also lower than her stability spectrum which is on the slightly high side. When extraversion  is lower than the stability spectrum, then that means that it takes them a little bit more time  to warm up to new horses or new people. Speaking of high stability, high stability horses tend to  be more methodical, more rhythmic. They're more consistent day in and day out. If they've had  a couple days off, they don't tend to build up energy as much. They might take a little  bit more time to get going and get motivated. And then Lex is also high on the structure spectrum  which means that she likely prefers things to be very black and white, very clear. There's a  right answer and a wrong answer. High structure horses get confidence from depth of expertise,  so sometimes training them can be a little tricky when they don't know what the right answer is. And  trust is a big factor for high structure horses, as well, because they want to mitigate risk,  and so developing that trust so that way they know that you are going to tell them exactly  what to do and mitigate that risk for them and make the answer very clear, they will really  really appreciate that when you're building a relationship with them. If you want to see Lex's  EqPI profile in more depth, it is available on the Patreon account for this podcast. If you are  a member, you get access to all of the horse's profiles that are on this podcast for free,  or if you don't want to become a member, you can also purchase the profiles one off depending on  which horse you're interested in. Patreon members also get discount codes for EqPI services and  early access to the podcast content. Now that we have done a quick overview of Lex's profile,  let's go ahead and talk to Caroline and Patricia. Welcome and thank you both so much for joining me.  I'm really excited to talk about Lex because I feel like I've seen posts in the past on social  media about how she's kind of a tricky pony to work with, and it kind of like took a little bit  of time to get to know her, so I'm curious from both of your perspectives, what's your favorite  thing about Lex and her personality. (Patricia) I think she's unique and that if she does like you,  she's on your side and she really tries to win every class. And it's one of those where  if you sort of win her over then you feel like she is really fighting for you, whereas if you  didn't know her and you just treated her like, you know... I would say probably the hardest thing and  the thing I like most about her is that she's not sort of cookie cutter. It's not, "okay today we're  going to ride, we're going to ride her for 20 minutes, we're going to lunge her for 15 minutes,  and then we're going to go and she's going to be perfect." There are days you need to ride her for  20 minutes and lunge her for two minutes or not lunge her at all. You really have to read her um  which I think is maybe hard for some people, but I find it kind of easy. Like once you sort of know  her, she really does tell you, "Hey I'm fresh. Hey I'm not. Hey I can go right to the ring. I can't."  So that's hard for some people, but I find it interesting, because I think if you read her, and  you know how to listen to her, then she kind of tells you what she needs. (Kaitlin) Yeah. How...  what does she do? Like, what are those signs that tell you what she needs? (Patricia) You know,  she's quiet naturally so that's tricky to pick up on whether or not she's quiet enough to show,  so she could fool you like 'cause if you're riding her around, she feels quiet, and then if you  didn't do quite enough and she walks in, she looks maybe a touch too bright, um and then you'll kind  of know because she'll kind of you know, ring her head around after the first jump or look a little  bit too interested on what in what's going on on the sides of the ring. And then when you have it  just right, and you... because if you could do too much. Then for me, she looks annoyed. She's like,  "yeah, you worked me too much. Now I'm tired and now I really don't want to put my best foot  forward." So I think it's just that fine line of sort of knowing her, and Caroline rides her  a lot in the morning so it's a constant, "How does she feel?" Sometimes we'll just check her on the  lunge line to see and she'll sort of tell you if she... I think if you had a groom that didn't want  to listen or watch how she's reacting, you could easily do too much. (Kaitlin) So Caroline, what do  you think from a rider's perspective? (Caroline) Yeah, you know, I would agree with Patricia.  You've got to take a minute to kind of get her on your side. You know even when I rode her,  it wasn't "get on and this is exactly how it's going to go and it's going to feel the same every  day." It was a little bit some days you're only on her for 15 minutes, and you're doing a little bit  of light flat work and other days you're like, "hey she feels really good we're going to jump  the whole course." And that's a little day-to-day with her. Like you're reading her. You're kind of  seeing how she feels and it's a little bit on her time but when she's in it, she's in it all  the way, and that's a very rewarding feeling as her rider. Especially now being ridden by a lot  of younger kids, she's kind of gotten that feeling where they get to know her and you  understand when she's ready to kind of go into a big stage and win the class. (Kaitlin) Yeah,  with that high independence, it's definitely like her head needs to be in it, I think. You  know for those high independence horses, when they're not in it, that's when you start to get  some resistance. And what I'm hearing you say also, is sometimes it takes a little bit more  time for her to maybe warm up to new people or to trust new people people, and when she does,  then she's kind of bought in. And that's pretty typical. Her extroversion is situational, right?  So one of the ways that we know how that actually shows up is by looking at the other spectrums,  and when the extraversion spectrum is lower than the stability spectrum, it takes them more time to  warm up to new horses or new people. And with her high structure, as well, trust is really important  to high structure horses because they want to know that they're gonna know what the right answer is,  things are going to be black and white. And so in addition to taking more time to warm up to new  people, it takes a little bit more time for her to trust people as well, or new horses. How has  that shown up? How does that resonate? (Patricia) I mean, I think she knows her people for sure.  Like I know when we're at the ring and we get to the gate, like she looks for me to like, "hey, I  did it well. Now she's going to give me a treat." Like she kind of knows the deal, yeah, and I think  that if the wrong... we've seen it like kind of if the wrong groom is taking care of her and you're  trying to move too quickly around her, she doesn't stand on the cross ties well, or we've gotten a  few different times where she's been leased out and come back to us, and we've told them, "hey,  you know, be careful with the grooms." Like if a guy approaches her very quickly on the cross ties,  she can kind of lean back against them. She's broken a pair. She doesn't love the vets. Like  even before they've even done anything to her, she's suspicious of the vets. And we've gotten  around that a lot by just you know giving her treats and stuff and then all of a sudden, oh  you can flex her, but when the vet goes to let's say examine her or do you know, she's right away  got her guard up, like, "I don't know who you are and now you're doing all sorts of things to me."  And then now she's sort of gotten you know used to our vet and that if you're nice to her then she's  like, "oh okay, this isn't that bad." (Kaitlin) Yeah, you have to win her over. (Patricia) Yeah  for sure, like for sure if a vet just like ran goes up to her even just to pull blood,  she's very weary of that. (Kaitlin) So what about you, Caroline? What's the most uh challenging  thing about her personality? (Caroline) I would say a little like Patricia was saying earlier,  it's challenging in that it could go both ways. You can kind of use it to your advantage or you  could see it as a disadvantage, but it's really that you have to be on her side all the time. If  you pick a day to take her out and she's kind of telling you like, "Hey, I'm not up for it today."  You listen to her a little bit. And she's got this way about her. We've seen her now at a lot of big  championships with so many different riders, I think she kind of knows the difference between  those two. She knows when she's at a regular horse show, and she knows when it means a little bit  more, and I think that as long as she's on your side, she knows that difference and she's going  to fight for you even a little bit harder. And I think that's kind of how you have to play it  with you. If you take her out one day and you're like, hey she's not up for it, just take a minute,  just another day at home, but she's going to kind of put it all on the line when it really counts.  (Kaitlin) Are there specific things that you do taking her personality into account to prepare  her for those big shows? (Caroline) I would say for her there's not a lot of buildup. You're not  jumping her a ton of days in a row. She's not a spooky pony at all. You're not practicing a  million fences. You're more making sure that she feels good day-to-day. Maybe a little bit of flat  work here and there, but you're not drilling her. And then I would say as the event gets closer,  you're kind of building up in if you give her a jump school, maybe if it was for a different kid,  you would put someone smaller like me on, who could kind of show her the way once, but it's  not complicated. It's kind of every show is a little bit the same for her in that you don't need  a huge buildup if the venue is a little bigger. (Patricia) Yeah, I would say that anyone that  it hasn't maybe gone as well for, it's because they've complicated it where it didn't need to be.  It's very hard sometimes to... to really do "less is more" when you're planning on going to Devon,  they're like, "that's not possible." But really you can overdo her and then she looks annoyed,  I would say, in her expression... not try her hardest if you just were like, "oh we're going  to Devon. We need to do double what we normally do." Which I would say for most horses is probably  the case, but I think with her, you have to really just... she'll tell you if she's fresh. Give her  an opportunity to lunge a little, and she'll do what she needs. But I don't think you can change  your program or your feel just because the show is maybe a little bigger venue which is difficult  to do. It's difficult to just be like, "she's fine." But you have to read her and she kind of  will tell you if she's wild or she's not, and if she's not, that's a hard thing to just be like, "I  barely rode her and now we're at Harrisburg." But she'll tell you. (Kaitlin) Yeah, I feel like in  the hunter world, especially, the inclination is to just lunge them a lot and get them really tired  so they go around nice and pokey a bit. (Patricia) Yeah, but she gets annoyed at you, like she's  like, "ugh leave me alone," you know? (Kaitlin) yeah, well, I mean you want them to enjoy their  job, you know? That's the ultimate goal, and I think that's when you have the most success,  as well, is when they're happy doing what they're doing so it sounds like you both have really  figured out how to create that sort of environment for her where she is happy and excited to go in  the ring without too much excitement. (Patricia) Yeah, exactly. (Kaitlin) Are there other ways  that her personality influences the way that she's managed around the barn related to maybe turnout  or feeding or blanketing or anything like that? (Patricia) No she's easy to work around for us.  I would say that we would tack up in the stalls with the grooms, not on a cross ties situation  like out, because I have seen her with a few guys, and I know Sam Schaefer mentioned it. I've seen  her sort of lean back and break the cross ties or um, but we groom a lot in the stalls. And I  think she likes that setup better. (Kaitlin) Does she ever go out with other horses? (Patricia) No,  I wouldn't say she loves other horses. I would say she is very independent and doesn't  really... she's not like herd bound like some of the other ponies can be. She's happy to be alone,  too, and she goes out maybe near other horses, but never in the paddock with other horses,  for us anyway. (Kaitlin) yeah, no, I mean I think that makes sense especially with her extraversion  being lower than that independence spectrum. She's really not super relationship-oriented,  you know? Yeah you know, like it takes her a bit of time to build up the relationship and a bit  of time to build trust, and that's when you start to see you know more of the uh, I guess the more  of the "try" as you said, um but yeah, with her independence being higher than her extraversion,  I wouldn't picture her as being a herd bound horse. Like I wouldn't look at her profile and go,  "she needs a buddy all the time" (Patricia) yeah no, I think she'd be fine without a buddy ever.  (Kaitlin) Some horses are like that. (Patricia) If you gave her a nice big grass field she would be  just fine. (Caroline) Yeah, fiercely independent. (Kaitlin) Yeah, I love that. So how about  um any specific training tips that you might give to somebody? Either... well, I know you lease  her a lot, so are there anything that you tell people um for training her when you lease her,  or if somebody else had a horse that was very similar to Lex, what are kind of the top tips  that you would give them to bring out the best in the that horse? (Patricia) Probably just try  to educate them on you know, just trying to keep her happy and then I would say she's the type you  know, if you want to practice, it's not an hour lesson. Like get on, jump and then get off. Don't  drill her and do it again and again and again and again, because it's probably not going to get  better as you go. So that's why I think for her, she doesn't really have a lot of kids that need to  learn the ropes, so you know so to speak. I think she has a lot of advanced kids that have multiple  ponies where they're just practicing but they're not practicing, you know, how to find the jumps  and going again and again and again and again. They're just practicing to put in a smooth round,  and they're not practicing endlessly, because I don't think she would work for somebody that was  learning to you know ride a pony or learning to do the small pony division. So we've never leased  her to someone, let's say, who it's their first time in the division. She's not going to tolerate  those lessons where they have to keep drilling it and doing it over and do it over and do it over  until they get it right. She wants you to do it right the first time and she's happy to do it a  bunch of times, but then be done. She, you know... just a normal, you know... even a good rider when  they're learning, they have to do the drills and do it over and do the pattern, so as a teacher,  I would just, when people call me about her the first thing I ask is, you know, "Which kid is it?  Are they in the division? How many ponies do they have?" Because she's not going to be a practice  type pony. (Kaitlin) Is it then trickier to find people who will lease her? Because especially  being a small pony, I feel like you probably have a lot of people that want to lease like...  you know she's of the top small ponies so I would imagine people want like the best for their kid,  and maybe they just started riding or yeah... how does that factor in? (Patricia) It's not  easy because they call and they ask about her and then as soon as I find out that, "Oh we're just  learning to do the division." And I know I just say, "hey, like her owner is at the point where  you know, wants her to... even if she doesn't you know have a lease person for a minute, that's  okay because we'd rather have the right person." Right? But it is, it does get more challenging,  because like you said, they're small ponies so most of the kids are just learning you know or  learning to ride ponies so that is a little bit tricky. We've gotten very lucky, like she had Ella  Tarumianz who is just such an awesome match with her. You know she's had a few of those you know in  Kenzie and she's had those riders that don't need to practice a lot, and you know, then more often  than not, she's champion or reserve. (Kaitlin) Yeah, I mean she was uh Pony Grand Champion Pony  the year with Ella, right? (Patricia) Yeah and she didn't even show that much, if you look at the  number of shows she did. (Kaitlin) Yeah, but she like tricolored in every single one. (Patricia)  Yeah, exactly. (Kaitlin) How does she tolerate... like if you do have somebody who's learning a bit,  does she tolerate the learning aspect? Like if somebody makes a mistake? (Patricia) Yeah,  she's not gonna stop or do anything but for sure her expression. You could just see it on her face.  She'll land, pin her ears back, like, "oh man, you missed it!" And like ring her head and she's like,  "come on, let's go!" You know, like she... right away you know or she'll... what she'll do is I've  seen a couple of, you know, maybe not as advanced kids try her, she'll just take over and start  taking them around. She doesn't stay as relaxed. She's like, "Hey kid, you're doing this all wrong.  Let's just, let's just go." And she'll kind of take over just a little bit. (Kaitlin) Yeah,  I can definitely see that with her high structure, wanting to do it right, and then her  high independence. Like if you're, if you're... "if you don't got it, I got it. Like, I'll take  you around." (Patricia) yeah yeah and then she'll, if anything that'd be the worst thing that would  happen. She would just take you like too quickly down the line or something. She'll be like, "we're  going! Just... I'm taking you. We're going." (Kaitlin) Did you train her as a as a young horse  as wel? (Patricia) When what was the year you rode her? (Caroline) So I showed her in 2016 and she  came to us and I think that that year prior, same year, but in the winter, she had done a little bit  of showing in the greens, and she had spent some time in Ocala, and then had a little bit of time  off like a little break after that and that's when she came to Patricia and I. (Patricia) She had to  have come out of the field. She looked pregnant. (Caroline) she did, yeah. she did. so I think they  gave her a real break after she initially started greens. (Patricia) Like, I actually questioned  like is she? Can we check? She is too heavy. (Caroline) She was. She was ginormous. (Patricia)  And I would say when she rode her, she really was green. Like very green. Like we basically because  she was so brave on the jumps, we never had to really practice the jumps. We had to practice  her weight coming and going, like her forward and back, and we would literally just do cavaletti:  six and five and six and five and six and five. (Kaitlin) the adjustability (Patricia) Basically  her rideability was the hardest part about her. She was always brave so we knew that that part,  we knew at least if we just got the rideability down, that the pony finals thing would be easy  because she wasn't going to spook at the jumps. (Kaitlin) yeah, what was she like to train when  she was greener? (Caroline) I would say kind of how she stayed throughout the years. a little bit  day-to-day. Like Patricia said, we didn't practice a lot of jumps. Other days, I would say learning  all that flat work for her and kind of giving her those gears was more frustrating on her part,  I would say. I think we only showed her two or three times before she won every phase at pony  finals. I would say the first time I showed her in the greens, it was a little bit like,  "hey you're telling me what to do too much." And like Patricia said, like, "hey I'm gonna take over  a little." And then kind of as we went day by day, you just saw that go away a little and I kind of  learned the softer ride as she got better at it, and then by the time we got to that horse show,  we were like, "hey, we have it. Like, she's on it." And that's still a little how she is now,  like you know when you have it, because I would say Brianne Beerbaum was a good rider,  but had never done hunters. And she had her one circuit at WEF, and that was a real match too.  And she learned it, the pony liked her, and she learned to ride hunters beautifully. And she,  I think she was circuit champion, and we really didn't train her. Like, she'd ride her and trail  ride her all week, and then we'd set her up for Brianne on Friday and Meredith would do it, and  she would make her kind of canter away from the gate up the line and then add on the lines going  home to sort of in preparation for that getting a little quick maybe by the end of the course, and  Brianne won so many classes. I mean class after class, and that was a kid that didn't really ever  have a hunter background, you know. She wasn't a beginner. Like, she had done you know some showing  in Europe, but she was definitely not some ringer from the states that had grown up in hunters,  right? (Kaitlin) So speaking of the hunters, how do you feel Lex's personality lends itself to the  hunter world and how has her personality influenced her success as a pony hunter?  (Caroline) I think it's helped her that she is a little bit unflappable. The venue doesn't change  her. She's not a spooky pony. Whatever jumps they want to throw in the ring are not going to affect  her, and if you get to know her a little, she's going to teach you how to be a very soft rider  which is a little bit what you're looking for in the hunters. You have to be effective but  it's got to look very invisible and very soft as you do it, and she's very good at teaching those  younger kids... you know some of the ponies, even if you're doing it well, maybe it looks  a little rapid or a little rushed or there's places on course where it could look smoother,  and it might not translate over to a winning junior hunter round or when you're a professional  and trying to do the hunters. And she's going to really teach you that kind of soft, more advanced  ride whereas some of the small ponies, I feel like it could be a little more like, "hey, I'm just  fine in the jumps and going around." But she'll teach you how to really ride them. (Patricia) And  I would say she likes the more impressive venues expression-wise. Like I would say day-to-day if  you went to a local horse show, she might look kind of uninterested cantering around,  and she seems to definitely know when it's a bigger venue um the expression. You know,  her ears are different and she's jumping a little higher and she does seem to know like,  "hey this is more important." (Kaitlin) How much do you know about her breeding? (Patricia) I don't  know a ton about it. (Caroline) I don't know much, not much. I mean I know that she was  bred in Lexington. The Lexington breeding was how she got Lex, right? And that's kind of my  extent. (Kaitlin) Gotcha. I just feel like when you're talking about personality, I feel like  inevitably, at some point, the question around nature versus nurture comes up and I wanted to  get both of your opinions. If you don't know much about Lex's breeding, maybe just in general...  What are your thoughts on nature versus nurture when it comes to personality? (Caroline) Um well,  I feel like, you know obviously when you have a horse bred a certain way there's a few things  that you're kind of looking to expect, but like you said, I also think it's a lot about the way  they're started and the venue that they're started in, and I think for her especially,  kind of starting at a place like Heritage and being in this program and having Patricia kind  of overseeing all of that, it definitely lended itself to her kind of making the path she has,  because I think very easily in the wrong hands, it could have gone a very different way and you  needed someone to kind of understand her and know her and be able to kind of work through a  few of the bumps you might have seen otherwise. You could have very easily I think backtracked  way far as a young pony. (Patricia) Yeah you know the nature versus nurture thing is come up a lot  with especially with the cloning and for whatever reason that maybe made me think more that it is  the way they're brought up, because if you looked at all the Sapphire clones, for example, who were  bred here and not there, and none of them really were anything close to Sapphire, and the same with  the Gem Twist ones. So I think a lot of it is the way they're brought up and the way they're  started. You know if you give them a positive start, um they're not going to be as apprehensive  or you know maybe as standoffish or spooky. I think it is I guess relating it more to how humans  would be, you know if you had a mother that was always like "oh my God, watch out!" You know it's  super dramatic and that that would be instilled in you, where if you had sort of the "Yep, this  is how we do it. It's all fine." And then the, I mean, I would think that that would affect the  horse in a lot of ways, the way same way it would a person. (Kaitlin) yeah, yeah, that makes sense.  Um and definitely, I mean, I always say with EqPI, there's no good or bad profiles, no good or bad  personalities. There's challenges and strengths to every single one, and depending on how you  work with them, you can either strengthen the challenges or you can strengthen the strengths,  and you can kind of bring out or reinforce you know through learning theory or training, um those  behaviors either inadvertently or intentionally. (Patricia) And I would say she, unlike most  children's ponies, is more similar probably to the FEI horses in that the match is really important.  You know just like it would be in jumping a Grand Prix, the match would be you know,  way more important especially with a horse with a certain profile, and for sure the match or the kid  that's on her is going to make or break sort of how it goes. (Kaitlin) Yeah, where I would imagine  some ponies can will just pack around anybody. (Patricia) Anybody, yeah, they're literally you  know would just take anybody. It doesn't matter. It does really matter with her. (Kaitlin) I could  imagine probably some of the high structure and high Independence have some influence on that,  as well, as far as like having a very clear picture of what's right versus wrong. Yeah  and then um you know needing to have a little bit more finesse to get her buy-in and get her uh head  wrapped around what she's doing and wanting her to want to participate. (Patricia) Yeah totally.  (Kaitlin)Well that brings us to the end of our discussion today about Lex. I really appreciate  you both taking the time to speak with me about Lex's personality a bit, and how that  has influenced her success as a hunter. (Caroline) Thank you so much for having us! (Patricia) Yeah,  thanks for having us. (Kaitlin) If you want to know your horse's profile,  you can get a profile at the EqPI website which is www.equineperformanceidentities.com. If you like  this podcast, we'd really appreciate if you showed us some love by giving us a rating on whatever  listening platform you use, and if you know anyone who would like this particular episode, please  share this episode with them, as well. Thanks for listening and we hope you tune in next time![Music]